Kanoa Exhibitor Demo: Kanoa: MES for the Masses

Kanoa MES is a modern Smart Manufacturing solution designed in and for Ignition. Learn about the Kanoa MES Modules, Kanoa MES Database, and Kanoa APP Ignition project you'll use to get started with Kanoa MES. Check out a live demo of Kanoa Ops and Kanoa Quality to see how you can configure your MES in days and get insights into your manufacturing data with ease.

Transcript:

00:01
Jason: I'd like to start by thanking you all for coming today to hear what it is we're doing at Kanoa, and thank Inductive for creating Ignition, for creating this incredible platform that has allowed us all to do the amazing things that we're doing today. In 2018, we formed Kanoa to help companies implement Ignition-based MES solutions with a bent on project management, lean Six Sigma solutions, and change management to help them drive continuous improvement. We'd seen way too many projects fail, and not because of software, but because of people's failure to transition. And it seemed that most companies were so focused on the digital transformation part and the implementation of software that they really hadn't spent any time on the people side of making sure that these projects were successful. So for us, selling MES software and solutions is a really poor business model if companies do not get value out of the solutions that we're implementing. So we really do focus, we come in for companies here. If it's your first time implementing an MES solution, we're going to work with you. Once you've got a proven track record, you've rolled this one out, you've done your pilots, you've got production lines, and people are actually deriving value from it, then knock yourselves out, you can carry on, you can use this as much or as little as you want.

01:33
Jason: MES applications are not trivial, and there's a fair amount of customization that has to take place. What we found over the years was really the difficulty in keeping up with the constant pace of a release train. I mean, every few months or every five weeks, they keep changing, they keep adding to it, and we have gone through so many refactors, we all have. We went from... Well, we started on 7.5, then 7.9 to 8.1 was a refactor vision to perspective, a huge one. Then we started changing expression tags to reference tags to take advantage of MQTT. And this is none of this is a bad thing. It's a constant evolution. But we have constantly had to keep reinventing ourselves to remain relevant. And because of that customization and the constant change, we found that some customers ended up potentially throwing away their solution, and starting again every time with the big changes. So in 2020, we decided to take a fresh look at what an MES solution or platform should be. And from what we've learned over the years, keeping the good and replacing the bad. So for a while now, we've been touting MES for masses. This is not a communist manifesto, but it's more of a guiding principle that really drives the products that we develop, in a sense, do I press or do you?

03:03
Jason: You got, amazing technology, go, it should be affordable. And we follow because of this, we follow the same licensing model as Ignition. It works for them, nobody books at the cost of Ignition. And the Ignition platform has been so flexible, in the sense that you could throw everything on a single server, every single one of your sites, your enterprises, your assets, run it up in the cloud, and you could have Edge devices pushing it up, but you could also distribute it. At the end of the day, the architecture that you're going to use is going to be driven by whatever constraints, whatever requirements of the applications you're building. In that vein, we said, let's follow what Ignition does, if you truly want to have an MES cloud server. And we think that's a great idea. Everything it has to connect to ERP systems is up in the cloud. Why not have a connectivity up there and use MQTT and Edge devices to push it up? It should be accessible. And that's a fairly easy thing to do because we are building modules exclusively for Ignition, and their licensing of unlimited users, unlimited tags, has been a game changer since 2010 when I first started using it.

04:17
Jason: If you're going to drive continuous improvement, you want everybody inside your corporation, your company, to have access to the information that's going to allow them to drive continuous change. It should be intuitive, moving to perspective. We absolutely love this because we can really make the user interface intuitive. And quite frankly, if you look at Amazon or Google, any of those companies, we use them every day. Nobody has ever read the user manual to be able to buy something on there. We kind of feel the same. Yes, there are aspects of MES that might be a little bit more specific, but if you use the same interfaces that people are using on their phones, if you give it to them in the same devices, it can be on a computer, a tablet, or a phone, then we can make it intuitive. And if it's intuitive, people will use it. And it has to have value. Value is in turning data into information. So when we built Kanoa MES, we started from the ground. We started with data. Data is the most essential part of it. So we built a third form, normalized database schema that stores the data, and it's open, and it's accessible.

05:34
Jason: So we build our APIs, our system functions that will interact with that database. They will give you the analysis, and it's lightning fast, and it's the smallest footprint that has data integrity and constraints. But you can also call those same stored procedures if you want to share it with Power BI, or Tableau, or an ERP system, or SSRS reports, it really doesn't matter. But you build from the data, you get value.

06:01
Jason: And then finally, it has to remain relevant. Keeping up with Ignition release train is like trying to board a train that's got no doors. You're never going to do it, and that may sound like a bad thing, but consider what Ignition gives us with this release train. They keep us relevant. They keep us on top with the newest technologies. They ensure that security matters are handled. They've given us MQTT, they've given us Kafka. I still don't know what Kafka is, but they've given it to us. And that's what Ignition does. So in this journey, we've got to keep abreast of the train. So whatever solution you're building here, it's got to be relevant, and it's got to be upgradable. So we, in our design, have ensured that our modules and our implementation have the lowest coupling with Ignition, because they're going to make changes anyway. We want you guys to be able to update with impunity and not fear that you're going to be held back by using our solution. Now, having said that, give us a chance to check under the hood of 8.3 before you upgrade. But with that, that's enough about words. I'm going to hand it over to Sam. He'll show you around. Thank you.

07:12
Sam: Yeah, thanks, Jason. So, really, all of those design ethos that Jason is talking about has culminated into the Kanoa MES platform that we have built. This configurable, flexible, intuitive MES software that is really meant to empower teams and drive continuous improvements. Because we are not doing MES just because it's fun, even though it is for some of us, but we are doing it to really improve processes and make plants run better. So when you get Kanoa MES, there are three components that you get every single time to make sure that you are starting from a strong foundation. You get the Kanoa MES database, that third form normalized database schema that Jason was just talking about. That is where all of that core key MES data is stored, as well as all of your configurations. You get our Kanoa MES modules that plug into Ignition and give you almost 400 new system functions to go and call the data that you need from that database. And very importantly, you get the Kanoa app Ignition project. This project is designed to give you a starting point with all of your configuration and analysis and daily operation tools that you need to get started with an MES from day one and continue to expand, customize, and tweak that application using the power of Ignition to make sure it can fit your application.

08:30
Sam: There are three modules that we sell over at Kanoa, actually, I guess two that we sell, but three that we make. Kanoa Core comes with any other module that you get because that has a lot of those core functionalities that you're just going to need for any smart manufacturing system. Theming, languages, security, all of that is in our core level and is shared across all other modules in Kanoa. But really, the two things that we're here to look at today are Kanoa Ops and Kanoa Quality. Kanoa Ops is going to be your system for OEE, work order management, asset management, scheduling, and shifts, and all the analysis that comes along with that. And then Kanoa Quality is a pretty unique offering in that this is a form design and dispatching tool that also gives you the tools that you need to analyze the data that you got from those quality forms. All again designed within the Ignition application. So, I am going to try to do the fastest demo I have ever done in 15 minutes and try to give you all enough time for questions at the end. But I do plan to do a webinar within the next two weeks after ICC to do a more thorough one-hour demo.

09:32
Sam: So if you like what you see here, definitely come and keep track of our LinkedIn page and our website to get more information on that. But without any further ado, here is our Kanoa Ops system. So as I mentioned, we do have two modules, Kanoa Ops and Kanoa Quality. You can get them together, you can get them totally separate. I'm going to start with Ops and then do Quality second. So let's kind of go through the day in the life of a production operator and the way that you could be using our Kanoa Ops platform. We'll start with looking at our work orders, scheduling some work, running that work in production on a line, and then getting some of the data afterwards. Then we'll actually peek into the configuration as well. So if I'm going to go ahead and manage my work orders, I need some interface for actually downloading all of those production orders. This can be downloaded from an ERP. They could be made right here in Kanoa MES. You are just picking the work order name the material that you need to run and how much of it you need to produce.

10:31
Sam: Once you have all that, you need to actually schedule that work on a line. So we have our operations schedule here, where you can actually see we're taking advantage of the BIJC calendar component that we do include with any Kanoa purchase. And this lets us do all sorts of things like create non-production events with certain recurring rules and things like that. Really fantastic tool to help manage all of these schedules. We have our normal production schedule here, but I can also do things like pop open our work order list, drag and drop a new work order into our timeline. The system's going to go, see what material you're running, see the appropriate rate that it runs on that line, and schedule it for the proper amount of time, which I'm then going to delete before it tries to run two work orders at once. The other thing that we have in here is our shift scheduling. So our shift scheduling is really cool. What it gives you the ability to do is to define shifts at any level in the hierarchy, and an asset will look for its closest parent with a shift. So if your whole plant runs on a four shift complex rotation pattern, except for the packaging area that runs in a different shift schedule, you can manage that very easily within Kanoa.

11:38
Sam: So we have our work orders, we've scheduled that work on a line, we have all of our shift data, we're going to track our data within the context of those shifts. Now it's time to actually open up one of these lines and get some work done. So from here, you can see our main enterprise overview page. You'll notice a couple of things here. So we're kind of following an ISA-95 style hierarchy with our enterprises at the top, a number of sites with areas, and then OEE enabled assets underneath them. We like to say we're ISA 95 inspired but not restrictive. So if you wanted to have, say, a business unit layer and organize all of your sites into business units between your enterprise and your site, go for it. We totally enable all of that. We want to have a site in an enterprise, but besides that, we're really flexible. So I can click into my production area here and get a summary of how all of my production lines in this area are currently running. We can see we got a little bit of an issue over here on Pac Line 1, and our other lines are running at various degrees.

12:35
Sam: I can go ahead and click into Bake Line 2 here and get to what we call our asset Operations screen. The idea of this screen is that every BIM operator that is responsible for this piece of equipment, everything that I need to run it is right here within this interface. I can see my current production modes and states. I can go into my run control and manually override my mode to say we need to go into a changeover.

13:00
Sam: I could manually select another work order or another product that I need to run from here. I can also go ahead and check things like the schedule right here from this interface. And then one of the very common things is, of course, to go and check on all of my downtimes. So I'm going to go and say, what were all of my downtime codes over the last seven days? And then from an interface like this, I can always double-click into one. I can recode things, I can add comments, I can add, delete, or change downtimes that we have recorded. Again, we like to collect all this data automatically and perfectly whenever we can, but there are plenty of times you need to do some manual work afterward too.

13:38
Sam: One other report that I'll show really quickly is our run review. So, this is really critical in letting you kind of see all of those production events that have gone through a certain asset. So what I'm pulling up here is we can see I've done three production runs on this line. It's breaking them up by shift and I'm getting certain metrics like their total runtime minutes, their OEE downtime minutes, all here from this screen. So another type of... We also have some more complex analyses. I'll pull up our downtime report as one example, taking advantage of some of the Apex charts here. Thanks again, Travis and the Ignition team for helping prepare all that. We can see all of our downtime by category, by state, and reason, broken out and seeing how it distributes by shift. I can do a stacked bar chart of my total downtime by reason, by day, and down here at the bottom, I can put it all into a table with a handy little export to Excel button. 'Cause I can make you the greatest dashboard in the world. And what's the first thing that you're going to ask me? How do I download it to Excel? I'll take it.

14:44
Sam: I'll take it. So again, in the fastest demo ever, I also want to quickly show you some of the configuration about this because one of the coolest things about Kanoa is again, everything I'm showing you here, you just get in that starter project that we are going to give you, including all of these configuration tools that you need to get you a significant amount of the way into your MES implementation. So you can see over here, I have my asset hierarchy. I can drill into a site and an area. I can click into a specific line and see I have this OEE enabled. You say, something's OEE enabled, we're going to go ahead. We drop a UDT into the ignition designer. And that's where you're wiring up your points. Another interesting thing to note is that everything I've shown you here runs off of three tags per piece of equipment. Give me your Infeed count, your Outfeed count, and your state. Everything else is configured over here in the Kanoa app. And granted, I know it can get more complicated than that. There's a lot of ways that you can make it more complicated than that.

15:41
Sam: But you can get all of this with just three pieces of data per piece of equipment. We have things like modes and states, where I'm designating all of the modes that are appropriate for this, and our state list where I am associating specific states with an asset, giving it a PLC code. That's how we're tracking all of your downtime. But it's really great that all of this is right here, configurable in the app with handy, intuitive tools. I can come in here, we can drag and drop this mix line into Jacksonville Juices if you want. It'll let us do all of that on the fly. So drag and drop assets, rename things. All of your data goes along with you. It happens all live. So that is a very quick preview of Kanoa Ops. Let's totally switch gears here and talk a little bit more about Kanoa Quality. So Kanoa Quality is all about paper on glass, right? You're running around with a bunch of check sheets today. You need to move that into a digital system to not only just get that paper off the shop floor, make that data more real-time, but also as we're moving these systems into digital platforms, we can establish more accountability.

16:46
Sam: We have this sense of a state of each of your check sheets. We're tracking the state of these as they go through. So check sheets can become overdue or missed, and we can flag operations and management teams when the sheets aren't getting done the way they need to get done. And that starts with our main overview schedule. Here you can see I have one approved test in my queue. I have four missed tests. Let's go and just do one of those missed tests, a little bit late. I'll double-click into this. I can even get a little bit bigger because again, we're just using Perspective for all of this. That's an important point I'll mention is that all of this is built in Perspective and none of this is using custom components. We are just using regular Perspective components that we are providing to you in that open starter project. So we're going to take advantage of Ignition's inheritance features. You're going to make new projects that inherit our projects where you can then override screens, make your own screens, all with our examples that you can build from. So I'm going to come in here, we're going to do a couple of checks to make sure that we can switch over this packaging.

17:49
Sam: Our area is clear of debris. Our machine is shut off. I'm going to take out my rye bread packaging and it's going to weigh 566 pounds. I'm going to put in our next wheat bread packaging. Notice this control limit up here as I put in something that's 625 pounds, and that gets flagged as orange in our little progress bar and in our control limits. I do a final checklist to say yes, my tooling is out of there and yes, my machine is turned back on. I do a final check to make sure that all of this data is the way that I want it and I go ahead and submit. So that was a very manual test. It doesn't always need to be that way. We can get data automatically from PLCs. We can get data and do run quality checks that don't have any manual data. And it's more like an event-based historian. The advantage of doing that is that we get all of that data into Kanoa Quality and then we can run our analysis on it. So I'm going to come into something like our fermentation temperature check, where I believe every 20 minutes this goes and collects three points out of our simulator and spits it back out here into this report.

18:52
Sam: Notice how quick that just happened. Right? Let's actually do for all of the data for this month in September, grab those three data points collected every 20 minutes, go get the data. It's done. That's the power of this database that we have in the background that's storing all this information. I can click into one of these zone temperatures, and I can chart that. This is where all of our SPC comes in. I can pick our Nelson rules. I can apply all of those. I can see my rule two violations, my threes. I can put it all in a histogram too.

19:19
Sam: Now, like ops, one of the most powerful things about this is, you don't need to go into the Ignition designer to do almost anything that I've shown you here. The only thing that you would need to do is to make certain tags available to the quality system so that you can just tie them in and get automated data. But the rest of this form design is done here in the app. If I come into our Kanoa quality configuration and look at our check sheets, I can take a look at that packaging changeover that we were doing earlier.

19:48
Sam: We can see things like if it's enabled, if this requires a sign off, if it's only appropriate for certain assets in my hierarchy, I can go into the checks themselves. And here is my machine shutoff check where you can see it's a string where I can add in specific instructions for my operators, where we can create a pick list of what shows up for them to be able to enter. The whole idea here being your quality managers and the ones that are making these forms, not necessarily the people that you want in your Ignition projects every day, they need a different interface to go in, add more instructions, tweak checks as things change. And that is why we give them this interface here. In addition to that SBC data and the configuration here, we did also talk about kind of the efficacy of the checks as well. So I can also do my check summary and by check sheet I can see how many are getting missed, how many are getting approved. I could put this on a shift heat map to see if there are certain shifts that are not doing the test they need to on time, again driving that continuous improvement and really trying to drive accountability around a lot of this data.

20:53
Sam: So I did it. That was a very quick demo. The one other thing that I will show really quick, 'cause I actually even have a little bit of extra time, is I didn't really get to talk too much about some of those Kanoa core functions that you get within every application. And there's three main things that you really get. One is over here and that we do have multi-language support. We are just using the embedded Ignition translation engines that you have in there. So we do have a couple of languages out of the box, though I've heard our Korean is terrible. We also have all of our themes in here. Jason would not let me do this presentation in grape, despite how bad I wanted to. These are also totally configurable. So you are totally welcome to go ahead and brand this for what you need for your specific company. And I will shift this back to blue before I go and show you the other main thing that you get out of the core modules, which is our security. So we're still using Ignition for all of your authentication, but we do add an extra layer of security here in Kanoa, just because the roles and permissions that you need in MES are a little bit different.

21:56
Sam: But we're doing it using things that you're all used to. We have our individual users that you put into groups. You give certain permissions to people in those groups, and you could do all of this by asset too. So I could be a manager for the packaging area, but just an operator somewhere else if I want to. So there's a lot of other exciting things that we have built or are building in the Kanoa Ops and quality platforms. We do have a mobile solution for Kanoa Quality if you wanted to run all of those checks on your phone with a slightly different interface. We do have a new dashboard editor as well as we are making new widgets to give people the capability to design their own MES dashboards. And we are also introducing lot tracking as a free upgrade in Kanoa Ops very, very soon. So we just need to upgrade some of the UX for it. The bones of it are all there and working, but it's really exciting to see that we can now have lot tracking and track traceability within our OEE solution, so that all of our counts are going to match up and all of those production orders and the tracking is all synced with a single source of truth.

23:02
Sam: So, again, that was a very fast demo. Keep an eye on our website and our LinkedIn if you wanna get more information on a webinar coming up soon. We do have a booth upstairs, but now is a great time for questions if anybody has anything they wanna ask us.

23:17
Audience Member 1: Can you talk about ERP integration?

23:20
Sam: Can we talk... The question is... Sorry, I'm gonna repeat it just 'cause I know there are some mics going around in the live stream. The question is, can we talk more about ERP integration? So, yes, we do a lot of ERP integration into these systems very frequently. Two of the most common points would be downloading all of those work orders that you have from an ERP into your MES. We can download them into the work order table and then have you schedule them manually, or we can fully schedule all of that work as well. The other one would be around material, something I didn't go through in the demo today, where we can download all of the materials that you run on your lines and then associate specific materials to specific assets with the rates that they are expected to run at, Jason you wanna talk more about that?

24:01
Jason: Yeah. Just to add, in terms of the interfaces, we can use all the tools that Ignition provides. So we can use web dev module for web services, you can use the Sepasoft one. If you wanna use the SAP business connector, it's really entirely up to you. Generally, we will do a RESTful API and then just have the ERP system pushing production orders down. If they push down a production order that's got the item, the item doesn't exist in our system, we will create it. If they then wanna put information about a start and end date for an item or an asset, we will create the association that this item can run on this asset. We'll give it default information. Every ERP integration that we've done is different. There are different business rules, so you've got to have that flexibility. But certainly, yes, web services are favored. We've done flat files. Hate doing flat files. Done middleware tables as well. Not really happy with those either. It's always funny when you have these digital transformation projects, they talk about everything they're going to do and then they're saying, yes, you can open this flat file and get the data out of it.

25:00
Sam: Great question. Any other questions? Yeah, right there.

25:06
Audience Member 2: So does the Kanoa Quality Module provide mechanisms to have a, say, PDF or image or something like that that is a helping guide in addition to the instructions and text?

25:16
Jason: Yes.

25:20
Sam: Yeah, sure.

25:20
Jason: Yeah. And again, everything that we've shown you here is we made a conscious choice. These are just Ignition perspective components. We've seen too many times where you'll get like a really complex component which doesn't allow for customization. So you can look at our views in here. If you're going to start like a production order, you're going to take a quality check, but you wanna have the operator do an additional step. I mean, you can go in, you can add, you can see how we're doing it in the background. They've got the PDF viewer, they've got the iFrame. So again, with every company you're going into is saying, sure, it'd be great to give them work instructions. Where do you store them? Is it in SharePoint? Is it on a network drive? How do you want to do it? We also add support for images. So particularly on the phone, we've now got it where people can take a quality check and it's saying, take a picture of a weld. From here we can use the phone, it will capture it. We store it as a blob in a database or we can push it out. All of that stuff is the customization.

26:13
Jason: What we're giving you here is not going to be 100% solution. It never is, but it gives you 80% of the way there. It's a fully functioning application. It's on you guys now to extend it as you see fit. And as you're doing that, if you find that there's stuff that you want, you see that you need, you can talk to us. Absolutely. If it's out of left field, we'll say, that's all on you. But if we look at it and say, that's actually really good for the product, that makes sense. Absolutely. The more we can get into the product, the better it is for us and for you. Because ultimately, what we're focusing on here is building a product that we can support for the long term. We have documentation, we have training, and we're going to make sure it's a supported product so that you guys don't have to.

26:58
Sam: Yeah, great question. I see one in the back over there. Yeah.

27:02
Audience Member 3: Is there like an API library for scheduling something like automatic work order stops and starts, or doing like, basically, you know, automated sample collection on the machine?

27:11
Jason: Yes.

27:11
Sam: Yeah, so the question was. Sorry, the question was about the API hooks that you have and kind of how you can build your own things with the API. Jason, yes.

27:18
Jason: Yes, I said we got 380 functions there, so absolutely, you can build your solutions in there. Everything that we do through here is going to be calling one of those system functions. So we can be called from a tag. You could stick it on the end of a web service call if you wanna do it from another system. However, that data is in there. But yeah, everything's through an API.

27:37
Sam: Yeah, but like for example, that downtime report that we do, there is a system.Kanoa of.events.getdowntime events for this asset with this start date, this end date. And yes, there's a lot of other variables you can kind of put into there. But yeah, we're giving you 400 system functions like that to put in and retrieve data from that database.

27:53
Jason: Let's have Dan. And we were promised a mic runner. Where's our mic runner? All right. Okay.

28:00
Audience Member 4: Hey, Jason, is this available as a trial?

28:03
Jason: Yes. Yeah, I mean it's just modules, so it works exactly the same, as Ignition, but you can do trial license. We actually think we do one better. One of the things here is that there's work and effort involved in getting the modules and getting it up and running. We'll just give you a container. So we've got a bunch of Linux cloud containers. We can run eight docker containers all running at the same time. So we'll actually get it where it's configured, it's set up for you. You can get in there and the design it, you can play with it and try it out. And if you do want to like an extended period, we can give an extended period trial license.

28:38
Sam: Yep.

28:39
Audience Member 4: Please.

28:41
Sam: But no, definitely those for the, the integrators and the people that just kind of wanna try this stuff out. Those containers are a really fast way to get onboarded. You meet with us, I kind of show you some of the basics and setups, and we kind of go through a basic configuration and then you usually have it for two weeks to show it with your teams and start to play around and see if it's going to be the right thing for you. So, if you are interested in something like that again, you can reach out to us, booth, website, however you want to. And we're happy to schedule some time to get you connected with one of those. Any other questions?

29:13
Audience Member 5: I saw that the quality module looked really good. We do a lot of that with our shop orders. So would I need both modules to essentially execute an order that collects a lot of data?

29:24
Jason: Yeah, actually, I can take this one. So when we built them separately, because there are a lot of people, they already have their own MES solution. They want a quality one. That's saying one of the things that we can do is everything through our APIs forget... Ethan, I didn't recognize you there. Nice to see you, man. So you can create a view table of assets. You could do it for work orders. You could pump it in if you didn't wanna use it at the same time here. If you're going to use quality in here, but you wanna configure assets and stuff. Yeah, we can absolutely figure that out.

29:54
Sam: Yeah, in the front.

29:55
Audience Member 6: So one of the things you guys started out with was providing a full solution. Not that this isn't. But to go from a great piece of software to return on investment. How are you guys tackling that?

30:09
Sam: Yeah, so we do think that... So I think this is our last question. I've just got flagged for. But it's actually a really great one. Because that was, as you said, that was a big part of our philosophy that we're not doing this for fun, as much fun as we find it, oddly. But we wanna drive continuous improvement. The software only gets you there so far. A lot of it is then around adoption and change management and actually intentionally doing continuous improvement. So a lot of what we think we're kind of trying to provide in this software is something again that kind of is intuitive, that with minimal training people can go in and actually be using, which we know is a huge adoption hurdle for a lot of these systems. That's why we really wanted to embrace things like language support, which I also think is a hugely important hurdle that we wanna be able to cross over. But then really a lot of it is also kind of just whether it be through Kanoa or the teams managing the projects or a trusted integrator or consultant really working with that end user to talk about their continuous improvement goals and how they're going to achieve them and having an intentional plan to do so.

31:08
Jason: Yeah. And to add to that, still the same last question. It's the nature of the beast of MES. Every implementation is going to have different challenges. So you can go into a company where they've really got their stuff together and they don't need any. They've got it figured out. But you've got the other companies where you need like it's the connections to PLCs, the manual lines is a real part of the data collection, which is going to be a challenge. We go in, we always talk about an engineering study, but it's a collection of meetings that go over the first week of in there where we're first off, we'll do education. So we're PMPs, we're lean, Six Sigma certified. We've been doing this for a really long time. We know the pitfalls and we know the risks of MES projects. We'll start off with half a day of education with all the stakeholders from everyone from operations, maintenance, quality, IT, finance, planning to basically discuss. And we've done this to various levels of degrees of success in that some companies have actually after that training, they've just stopped because they said we realized we weren't ready as an organization, we are not ready and it's a waste of time.

32:17
Jason: You have the other ones who they say, "I hear what you're saying, Jason, just write the software." It's like, seriously. So we can, we'll provide changes, whatever it's needed there. We'll do change management, we will help. We say, you need a project chart. So you certainly need a vision for what it is you're doing. You need a cross functional team. You need stakeholder agreeing and buyin. And let's figure out who's being affected by this one. Let's create a process map of what your existing systems are, because we're going to be deprecating some of those in here by the very nature of that act. That's where you start to actually uncover areas for continuous improvement just in implementing.

32:53
Sam: That's a great question to end on. Thank you all so much.

32:55
Jason: Thank you.